Over the years, I had the pleasure to encounter many amazing women who are just as passionate about science and education as I am. However, rarely do long lasting friendships emerge out of these meetings. When it does happen, if feels even more special.
The understanding and interest for each other’s research is at least equally important as the long nights over beers and wine, talking about personal topics, everyday problems and passionate talks about being a woman in science.
My friendship with Anna reaches far out of the lab or the university – it has become a wonderful part of my life and I respect her and her work very much. Her opinion matters to me, I frequently ask her for feedback and I enjoy learning from her whenever we spend time together.
I met Anna in September 2019, when she approached me on Twitter, in the hope to join my science education program Kaffeeklatsch mit Wissenschaft. I was stunned. I was new to the job and only had one other event under my belt and her interest and enthusiasm but flattered and amazed me. I had no idea at the time that we would become friends.
Since then, we met up in bars (pre-COVID-19 times, oh the memories), online and in parks. She is growing into an amazing science communicator, a position that seems effortless to her (because she does it so naturally and with so much excitement) and I am always happy to join my experiences with her.
September 2020 is a busy moment for the two of us, as I organized Pint of Science Berlin (she was a speaker) and now we have Soapbox Science Berlin coming up (I’m an organizer, she is another speaker – see the pattern here? =)
Luckily, we found some time to sit down and talk about a topic that is dear to us – the role of women in science. She has a (to me) unique perspective, as being a woman in the field of medicine and I am extremely grateful that she took time out of her VERY busy schedule to answer my questions.
When did your interest in science begin? What is your field of study?
My interest in science started in the last years of high school. My schools’ main emphasis focuses on science; therefore, many teachers supported voluntary activities outside of school. Then my science teacher asked a friend and me to join Jugend forscht (“Youth in research”). Of course we did not hesitate and started a project about the mushroom “Lawyer’s wig” and its influence on the alcohol degradation. Additional note here: No, no self-experiments or with other persons ; ) This project enabled me to gain first insights into research because our scientific supervisor – a physicist at the Goethe University Frankfurt – introduced us to experimental lab work. These were exciting times! It was the first time I was holding a pipette!
Based on these positive experiences, I decided for the course molecular nutritional science at Potsdam University that provided an extensive core knowledge and methodological skills in nutritional biochemistry, food chemistry, epidemiology and many more. Thanks to the applied concept of the master program, the practical internships were leading me to immunological research and my current position. Since 2018, I am working as a PhD researcher at the department of Rheumatology and Clinical Immunology at the Charité – University Medicine Berlin. My project focuses on the innate immune system in the autoimmune disease systemic lupus erythematosus where the immune system attacks body-own structures leading to tissue and organ damage.
What was it like to be a woman studying your field? Did you feel supported and challenged in a positive way? Did you have a network of people to reach out to?
Interestingly, nutritional science shows a higher female:male ratio compared to other STEM (Science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) fields. In my academic year, three men out of 40 students started studying nutritional science. I did not feel any different treatment between male and female students back then. Maybe that would be different today due to own experiences and public discussions about this topic. During the lecture time, there was not much support for students; not because I was a woman, it was rather a gender-unspecific phenomenon. I wish that we would have had more offers for research- and career-development, retrospectively also specifically for female students only. By now, this changed notably at my university since I was studying. In any case, in the nutritional department, professors and lecturer offered support to the students equally, but one needed to request it.
The feeling of support changed drastically during my practical internships because I was lucky to have encouraging supervisors. They challenged me in a positive way and provided support in whatever way required. During this time, I observed the power of personal networks, which significantly influence available career options. It is very important to stay informed about ongoing opportunities to further educate and network. With that, I actively started expanding my network via seminar trainings and conferences in order to receive constant support in form of news, event invitations, shared knowledge and introduction to other groups.
Why do you think so many girls and women are still underrepresented in our area and professional field?
Unfortunately, it’s a multifactorial problem. First of all, we need to teach girls and boys early that men and women can succeed equally. Girls need to feel comfortable and confident enough to choose a STEM field as profession. It must become normal to see women managing family and job at once, women in leading positions and women across all STEM fields. Representation matters!
I don’t think that women are necessarily underrepresented the same throughout the STEM fields, but it uniformly changes at a certain career stage out of several reasons. It seems that the entry from education into working life is the turning point. The law should prevent a discrimination of women in HR decisions, but reality looks different: stereotypes, unhealthy working environment, company infrastructure and restricted networks are contributing to favor men in job decisions.
The first time I experienced such a behavior was in a PhD job interview with the PI and the institute director in a very well established lab. Recently in that department, a female scientist founded a new group and was on maternal leave. The male interviewers commented that they shouldn’t have given her the job, had they known that she intended to get pregnant and not being able to run the lab now. In the end, they did not accept me as a new PhD researcher, but would I have liked to stay in a working environment where women are seen as a burden because of a child or family plans? Unfortunately, this kind of thinking is spread in many labs. Awareness of this and the other mentioned problems are rising and I am very hopeful for a slow, but steady change in this regard.
What are we going to do to combat existing forms of discrimination?
Giving feminists a voice and rising awareness of the existing issues. Luckily, there are already many options how to improve equality of men and women. Conferences, seminars, blog posts, specific trainings for women, legal regulations, women networks and work place related offices for women and equality. And probably many more.
You co-founded the Nutrition Network Potsdam – What were the challenges, why did you want to organize something like this? Did you have help from someone?
In short, Nutrition Network Potsdam is a network for students and alumni of nutritional science at Potsdam University, which aims to support networking and career development across academic years. Therefore, we offer different events like the ‘Meet & Greet’ where we invite alumni to present their current field of work to the students.
During the last semester of my master thesis in Heidelberg, I needed to think about “What next?”. Inspired by an alumni meeting of the German Cancer Research Center, I scribbled the first outlines of a network for nutritionists at my alma mater and with more and more ideas, the project increased. With an amazing team, we founded Nutrition Network in 2018 and since this year, we can proudly claim Nutrition Network as an official alumni chapter at Potsdam University.
Not only was it difficult to show that Nutrition Network is required to improve the studying experience significantly, but also to convince them that a group of students and PhDs can set up a network by their own. Luckily, we had some experienced supporters from our institute and the university-own career service who animated us to continue. Of course, there were challenges, but nothing was unsolvable. It was very important to be prepared and to establish a well-organized network structure. Over the time, the upcoming challenges change. First the financial situation and how to be included in the university infrastructure were the main concerns, now it is rather challenging to stay in contact with the students after graduation and what else we can offer in our network.
You are very active in science communication, what are your least favorite and favorite things about working with the public?
What I enjoy the most about science communication is making it available for everybody and sharing the fascination for my field of research – immunology – with many different persons and connecting with them over their interest in science. It makes me happy and optimistic to see so many people being interested in the science performed daily by scientists. My least favorite part is the preparation for the SciComm events. My time schedule is always very tight and I want to be perfectly prepared for my talks, but the research for more background information and possible questions is very time-intensive. Usually I manage everything in time, but sometimes I am worried that I might not know enough to give a satisfactory reply. Nonetheless, I would like to encourage everybody to consider getting active and talking to the public occasionally. From my and friends’ experiences in SciComm formats I can tell you that we are gaining so much from it: inspiration for research projects, personal support & new friends, (self-) recognition that we are experts in our field and most importantly practicing self-confidential presentation of our research.
What would you tell a little girl about the challenges and struggles (but also the positive things) in joining this path a similar path to yours?
This might sound like a cliché, but do not give up and follow what makes you happy! Be confident in your skills and the decisions that you make. I bet you already know more and have acquired more skills than you think. Studying and working in any field can be challenging and it is absolutely natural to worry and re-consider decisions. There is nothing bad about it – it is healthy. Always evaluate what you have achieved in the past year and also value all your efforts. You can do anything!
Thank ou for this amazing and insightful interview, Anna!
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Come hang out with us at Soapbox Science Berlin:
Saturday, September 19, 2020
2 – 5 pm
Washingtonplatz, Berlin Central Station
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